Charlie Manuel says Shane Victorino had to fight “unless he wants his teammates to call him chicken”

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Todd Zolecki of MLB.com got some good quotes about last night’s Phillies-Giants scuffle from Shane Victorino, Placido Polanco, and manager Charlie Manuel.

For starters, Manuel said that Victorino “almost has to” charge the mound when Ramon Ramirez plunked him “unless he wants his teammates to call him chicken” because “he hit Vic and then came off the mound at him … that’s the way baseball works. I’ve been playing for almost 50 years. He pretty much called him out.”

Victorino told Zolecki that he “absolutely” believes Ramirez intentionally hit him with the pitch that started it all, saying:

That’s why I took a step forward. I had no intentions of going out there and charging the mound. I just wanted to know why in that situation … he was around the plate all night and throughout that inning … obviously with two outs and I get up to the plate and the first pitch is at my back.

I just wanted to go out there and get an answer. I had no intentions of charging the mound. I did step forward. Obviously, Eli [Whiteside], I guess from looking at his reaction, thought I was going to go and he started jumping around. Obviously, Polanco came in and he tackled Polanco. I think everything escalated from there.

“I just wanted to go out there and get an answer” strikes me as a pretty hilarious explanation of Victorino’s reaction, but regardless of his initial intentions the decision to rush back into the scrum after being held back by various people, including an umpire, will almost surely get Victorino suspended by MLB. He explained that part by saying: “I just felt like Carlos [Ruiz] was in a position like I needed to go in and help him get away from everything.”

Meanwhile, Victorino saying that Eli Whiteside “tackled Polanco” didn’t sit well with Polanco, who told Zolecki: “He didn’t tackle me.” And he’s right, since Whiteside never actually got Polanco to the ground. I commented on Twitter at the time that Whiteside showed some good linebacker instincts, but on second thought he was acting more like a fullback making a lead block than a linebacker making a tackle. Either way, not bad for someone who looks like a middle-aged insurance salesman.

Victorino, Polanco, Ruiz, and Whiteside are all in the lineup for today’s game, which starts in a couple hours.

It will take more than a cursory apology for Josh Hader to put this behind him

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If you missed it, Brewers All-Star reliever Josh Hader landed in hot water the minute he stepped off the mound in Washington last night when multiple tweets he made in 2011-12* were uncovered containing some seriously gross, racist, misogynistic and homophobic language.

Almost as soon as it broke, Hader made a quick apology for the tweets, saying that he’s not the same person now than he was when he was 17 years-old. Major League Baseball is investigating the matter and Hader acknowledged that he must and that he will talk to his teammates about this, so the story is not over.

Some commenters and correspondents of mine, however, have said they believe it should be over. Indeed, they said it almost as soon as the news came to light. While a small handful of those folks likely take no issue with the language Hader used — there’s a lot of ugliness out there, particularly noticeable in the anonymous online world — others have simply, and it would appear genuinely, said that we should cut Hader slack for some bad choices he made when he was 17.

I will gladly cut Hader more slack for six and seven-year-old tweets he made as 17 year-old that he apologizes for genuinely than I would if he tweeted that stuff yesterday, but let’s not rush to “aww, he was just a kid” land seven hours and a night’s sleep after it all came to light. Indeed, there are many reasons why this is not a case for instant and automatic forgiveness.

This was not some kid breaking out a neighbor’s window with a slingshot. This was not someone saying “that’s gay” instead of “that’s dumb” in the way a lot of us have in the past. This was not someone using a word or phrase that only recently came to be accepted by most people as unacceptable or said something that, while not containing any awful individual words was insensitive, to use the parlance of the day. It was some seriously ugly language (go read it if you’d like), used consistently, repeatedly and confidently. It’s not from some hazy time in the past like the 1970s. It’s from 2011 and 2012. It’s language that he and everyone else knew, at the time, to be profoundly offensive to a massive number of people and which was unacceptable to use in a public forum. Not just now, with the hindsight of age and time, but then, even at the age he was. The tweets are a window into a really gross and disturbed person’s mind.

Hader should — and he will — be given the chance to apologize and to make amends. No one is suggesting he be banished to an island and he certainly won’t be, so don’t even make a suggestion that he is or will be any sort of victim of P.C. culture or whatever the hell else people cite in order to excuse their awful behavior or the awful behavior of others. At the same time, however, let us not let him off the hook with a cursory apology and a conclusory “I’m not like that anymore” statement to a beat writer five minutes after the controversy came to light.

For one thing, no one else would be given such an easy pass like that. No politician or musician or artist or job applicant or anyone else, famous or non-famous, would simply be able to cite being 17 as a get-out-of-decency-free card. We routinely try criminal defendants that age as adults. We make 17 year-olds of color conform their behavior to the most unreasonably high standards, set by others, in order to avoid being discriminated against or worse. For his part, Hader was an elite high school athlete who knew damn well that what he said and did in public was scrutinized in a fundamentally different way than what others said and did and nonetheless tweeted that garbage anyway. He did it either because his level of empathy and respect for women, blacks and homosexuals was defective and abhorrent or because he knew better and simply didn’t care.

I am not suggesting Hader not be given a chance to apologize and make amends for all of that. I am not suggesting that he not be able to continue to pitch late innings for the Milwaukee Brewers, become rich and famous and live his life happily and freely. I am merely saying that it is not too much to expect him now, less than 12 hours after all of this has come to light, to have to do some actual work to explain and atone for it. To not just say that he’s “a different person” now but to tell us how — apart from getting caught being obnoxious — he became a different person and what that really means. To expect him to explain this and to apologize to his teammates, and not just the two who happened to be in Washington with him last night. To explain and to apologize to his fans, many of whom are women and minorities, and to ask for their forgiveness and understanding.

I am not, to use a phrase someone threw at me last night, “on my high horse” about this. I am not holding Hader to some unreasonable, liberal/P.C/social justice warrior standard in which poor, victimized Josh Hader can simply not win. I am simply saying that this is far more serious than finding out some 80-year-old man jumped a subway turnstile back in 1954 and that the acceptance of responsibility, the apology and the work Hader has to do in light of this is not to issue some quick and cursory one offered to a national beat writer as he towels off after a postgame shower.

I realize our standards and expectations of certain public figures in this country have become impossibly low, but my God, they are not that low, nor should they be.

*There were some putative Hader tweets floating around Twitter of a more recent vintage, particularly one about Trayvon Martin from 2016, but there is reason to suspect at least that one is a Photoshop. Hader has locked his account, however, and it cannot be confirmed. It’s not really important, though, given that Hader has admitted to making multiple ugly tweets, to make such a determination at this moment, so we’ll leave the analysis of each and every individual tweet for another time.