David Ortiz rips David Price, calls him “a little girl” and “a little b-tch”

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Things got heated between the Rays and Red Sox last weekend and it continued last night at Fenway Park in Boston, as David Price hit both David Ortiz and Mike Carp with pitches, which eventually led to a benches-clearing incident. Brandon Workman, John Farrell, Torey Luvullo, and Brian Butterfield were all ejected during the evening for Boston while Price remained in the game and pitched seven innings. The Red Sox eventually won 3-2 in 10 innings.

As you may recall, Price was peeved when Ortiz took some extra time to admire a home run during Game 2 of the ALDS last year. Per CSNNE.com, Ortiz told reporters after last night’s game that the first-inning hit-by-pitch was retaliatory in nature and he used some inflammatory language to rip Price.

“You can’t be acting like a little girl out there,” said Ortiz. “You’re not going to win every time. When you give it up, that’s an experience for the next time. If you’re going act like a little [expletive] when you give it up, bounce back and put your teammates in jeopardy, that’s going to cost you.”

Ortiz made it clear that the actions belong to Price and Price alone.

“He knew he screwed up,” said Ortiz. “He did that on his own. No manager sent him. No player was comfortable with the situation. He did that on his own. Which is (expletive). He can get somebody else hurt. You can’t be doing that (stuff).”

“It’s on. Next time [Price] better bring the gloves. I have no respect for him no more.”

You certainly don’t want to see anybody get hurt with a silly beanball war, so it’s easy to understand Ortiz’s frustration here. However, it would be nice to see him get his point across without needlessly stepping into misogyny. Oh well.

Here’s video of Ortiz’s comments:

As for Price, he told Joe Smith of the Tampa Bay Times after the game that he didn’t throw at Ortiz and Carp on purpose. Of course, what else would you expect him to say?

“I’ve got to establish my fastball in,” Price said. “I’ve got six lefties in that lineup. It’s my favorite side of the plate to go to.”

Ortiz characterized the situation as “a war” during his post-game comments, so the rest of this weekend — and future matchups between Ortiz and Price — should be interesting.

Some equal time for the Rays defenders

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Yesterday I came out pretty sharply against the Rays recent moves. I stand by all of those comments, but I think it’s worth giving equal time to dissenting views.

Each of those posts contain analytically-based looks at each move and, for the most part, defends them on their baseball merits. I’ll let them stand on their own on their specific merits and not go in with point-by-point rebuttals (a) because that’s tedious; and (b) because I’m not the best-suited person to rebut analytical points.

There’s a (c) here, though, which is more important in my mind: no matter how many good points those articles make — and they do make many — it’s sort of beside the point. Because it seems to me that those of us slamming the Rays and those of us defending the Rays are talking past one another.

Sullivan, Drays Bay and others are arguing that the Rays front office was able to make some good moves. And they make those arguments pretty well in a vacuum. What they don’t address — and what I’m mostly concerned with — is the assumption that they HAD to make those moves. From where I’m sitting — and the credulousness some have for front office spin notwithstanding — Rays transactions in recent years, and certainly lately, seem to be pretty clearly mandated by ownership in order to either cut payroll or to keep it from growing and to shed arbitration-eligible dudes. That the GM and his team have made decent lemonade out of those lemons does not vindicate ownership’s mandate to cut payroll and shed arbitration-eligible dudes.

What’s more, such arguments — “hey, here’s the x, y, z of why trading away the face of the franchise is good!” — do not address the largest issue facing Tampa Bay Rays baseball, now and for the club’s entire history: fan apathy. Yes, they do relatively well in the TV ratings and their stadium and its location are a big hurdle to overcome, but the fact of the matter is that the Rays, as an organization, have rarely if ever done things which can be best explained in terms of giving the fans an entertaining product on the field. They have had some excellent teams, but they have, more than most clubs, let their baseball decision making be determined by the bottom line rather than making baseball decisions aimed at creating a consistently-winning and entertaining product.

A much simpler way to look at this is from the perspective of casual fans, families and the sorts of people who are not hardcore statistically-inclined diehards. What have the Rays done to attract these people? How does a 12-year-old kid get excited about the fact that they traded away Evan Longoria for payroll purposes and cut Corey Dickerson, an All-Star last year, because his 115 wRC+ far outpaced his projected 103 wRC+? That’s a consideration that a diehard fan who has, through big-time immersion, come to appreciate as a second-level thing, but it’s not how anywhere close to a majority of fans enjoy and experience the game. They like stars and familiar names and they want to believe that, if they go to a game, the team has a good chance to win it and that it’s fun in the process.

I’m not seeing any appreciation from the Rays’ defenders for that dynamic. I’m not seeing any acknowledgement that the Rays moves are making the team less familiar and less enjoyable for a casual fan and how that, when you take away some of your team’s better players and replace them with guys who might be better at some point down the road, there’s a good chance that the team will take a step back in the short term and how that that may turn off a lot of fans.

There’s an argument in the DRays Bay piece that those of us criticizing the Rays are doing so from some sort of pre-Moneyball, luddite perspective. This is ridiculous. Most of the folks who are leveling this criticism — and Drays Bay links our articles on this in their piece if you want to read them — are well-versed in team building theory. Many of us were deeply immersed in sabermetric reading and writing before the Rays even existed as a franchise. We’re well-aware of what motivations and incentives exist for general managers and the manner in which one builds a team for sustained competitiveness.

The point is that most people do not root for general managers. They do not care about long-term, sabermetrically-sound theories of team building. They want an entertaining team in which they can, over time, invest some loyalty and forge an emotional connection. If a club cannot serve those fans — which are, again, most fans — while also building their team for sustained competition, they need to explain why they can’t, given how many teams are able to do this. They are not entitled to the deference they and their defenders expect as a matter of course.